A Couple Buddies on the Topic of Instinct
Alternatively titled:
Jon Might Be An Animal
This is not a post about politics, sex, travel, buying stuff, or food.
It's not really a short post, I guess.
Some of you may know JON, or be aware that I have a friend at work named JON.
Jon posted an MSN conversation between him and I on his blog. Because I like people who read stuff, I've decided to also post the convo, but without the noisy distraction his blogger background provides (take That! Jon! -- Jon's like, "That That! Eyes!" hehe)
As Jon has done, I'm providing Webster's noun definition of 'instinct'.
And now, brought to you by time and space, the conversation two gerbils didn't have one day.
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
do you relate success and profit to quality?
Patrickman says:
its more like
you relate success and profit to a lack of quality
Patrickman says:
but what is quality?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no i dont lol
Patrickman says:
define quality
Patrickman says:
definitively
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
quality is relative to each person
Patrickman says:
zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
Patrickman says:
have you read it?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
thats a real book?!
Patrickman says:
its a very enlightening read as to how elusive quality is
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
oh, i know how elusive it is
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
thats why people think halo and halo 2 are good
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
and WoW....
Patrickman says:
how elusive the definition of it is
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
quality is on the same platform as beauty
Patrickman says:
is it?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
yah
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
human nature has core beliefs what beauty is, and it differs from person to person
Patrickman says:
rather than say i didn't know that, i will say i still don't know that
Patrickman says:
then it isn't core is it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
there are basic beliefs in beauty
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
instincts persay
Patrickman says:
humans have no instincts
Patrickman says:
only animals do
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol...
Patrickman says:
would you care to dispute that?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
thats a whole nother convo
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
haha
Patrickman says:
yes, but it's not a long convo
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
could be
Patrickman says:
i'm interested to see what you consider to be instinctual in humans
Patrickman says:
and i will show you that everything humans do is learned
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
every human is born w/ ideas and the capability to do certain things
Patrickman says:
no
Patrickman says:
they are not
Patrickman says:
no human is born with ideas
Patrickman says:
and there are no tasks that humans know innately
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
breathing is instinct
Patrickman says:
humans are the only mammal that cannot swim from birth
Patrickman says:
no it is not
Patrickman says:
breathing is not a task
Patrickman says:
eating isn't
Patrickman says:
sleeping isn't
Patrickman says:
these are all autonomic processes
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
so only task's can be considered instinct?
Patrickman says:
and are not considered instinct in any species
Patrickman says:
yes
Patrickman says:
such as the instinct in birds to fly south in the winter without actually knowing where south is
Patrickman says:
or how seals(?) use rocks to open clams etc
Patrickman says:
or is it otters..
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no idea
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about the instinct to look for protection from enviroments?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
babies run to their mother's when they are scared
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
well, not run
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
you know
Patrickman says:
babies are taught that mommy offers comfort
Patrickman says:
but if it was instinct, how come you don't still run to mommy?
Patrickman says:
instincts are never unlearned
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
i still run to my mom
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
and yours
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
*burn!*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about fear?
Patrickman says:
autonomic
Patrickman says:
fight or flight
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
most people are scared of spider's with out ever seeing one
Patrickman says:
the release of hormones into the blood stream will elevate certain states
Patrickman says:
no they are not
Patrickman says:
and saying they were...
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
sex is an instinct
Patrickman says:
if fear was an instinct in humans, humans would react identically to the same situations
Patrickman says:
biological urges etc, are not task-related behaviours
Patrickman says:
instinct, is knowledge applied without experience
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
and bird flying south are biological urges?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
are not*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
wait
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
are*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
are not*
Patrickman says:
they are not biological in nature
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
wtf
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
everything is biological
Patrickman says:
well, sure
but flying south does not have the immediacy of biological imperitives
Patrickman says:
and behaviour is not a biological phenomenon
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
sex is a behaviour too tho
Patrickman says:
at any rate, humans have no insticts. there is nothing we know how to do the first time we do it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
its not purly physical like it was
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
ok
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
i got it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
ill give you the fact that humans have no instinct
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
but i do have 1 we do have
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
humans have the instinct to learn
Patrickman says:
no we do not my friend
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
omg
Patrickman says:
humans have the biological basis in order to store and reaccess memory
however, it is only with human culture that the process of real learning takes place
Patrickman says:
rats can "learn" a maze...
Patrickman says:
but rats cannot choose to learn
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
culture? thats a shitty excuse
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about cavemen?
Patrickman says:
our learning is different because it starts off primitively, but gives way to consciousness through enculturation
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
there was no real culture when humans first came to be
Patrickman says:
excuse?
Patrickman says:
the first humans only came to be as a result of culture
Patrickman says:
the culture of community
Patrickman says:
the culture of recorded history
Patrickman says:
the culture of best practice
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
fine, then culture is an instinct.
Patrickman says:
everything human relates to culture
Patrickman says:
omg
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
BOOM!
Patrickman says:
it is not
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
AARRRGGG
Patrickman says:
have you ever heard of the wild boy of aveyron?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
wait, maybe
Patrickman says:
humans have a very brief window in which to become enculturated
Patrickman says:
after a certain point, it becomes impossible
Patrickman says:
thus, not an instinct
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
but even birds have to learn to fly
Patrickman says:
do they?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
theyre taught, from their mother
Patrickman says:
why do you think that is?
Patrickman says:
i think you are incorrect
Patrickman says:
mom has an instinct for when to push the birds out the nest
Patrickman says:
however, birds fly with no demonstration of flight previously supplied
Patrickman says:
atfer a certain point, the instinct to fly matches with the physical capability to do so
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about when the mother demonstrates when she takes off from the nest
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
or flys back
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
the youth take notice
Patrickman says:
haha
Patrickman says:
you make them sound so human
Patrickman says:
instead of just hungry needy mouths eagerly awaiting more food
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
PS - Patrickman says:
yes, but it's not a long convo
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
could be
Patrickman says:
relativity again?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
im just trying to relate that humans, have certain built in notions
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
Chuck has an instinct of round house kicking
Patrickman says:
omg
Patrickman says:
no they don't
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
walking!
Patrickman says:
humans have nothing more than biological dispositions to their environment
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
yah, but the dispositions had to evolve from a notion
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
which would be an instinct
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about the first human to walk?
Patrickman says:
how so?
Patrickman says:
dispositions had to evolve from a notion
Patrickman says:
given that the disposition is biological, and notions are the result of cognizance...
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
cognizance?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
uh, dunno wtf that means
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
dictionary.com to the rescue!
Patrickman says:
cognition
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
you think notions are awareness?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
well, ok they are
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
nvm that
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
competition could be considered instinct...
Patrickman says:
well,
roll this all around for a while, and we will reapproach it on another occasion
agreed?
Patrickman says:
it could not
Patrickman says:
peer accolades are only important to some
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
most*
Patrickman says:
competition at the basest of levels is merely survival of the fittest
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
everyone wants to be the best
Patrickman says:
and survival is not a tast - it is a result
Patrickman says:
task*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
i know that
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
FINE
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lets drop it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
haha
Patrickman says:
we are not dropping it
Patrickman says:
we are adjourning
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
hmmmm
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
adjourning...
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
INSTINCT!
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
you know, i could do this for every verb in the dictionary
Patrickman says:
it is the result of thought processes learned from my species that i now direct my full attention to my work
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
work is an instinct....
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
ahaha
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
jk
Patrickman says:
i luv u
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
im blogging this convo
Patrickman says:
thats a great idea
So what do you think? Do humans have what can be considered "Inborn pattern of behavior often responsive to specific stimuli"?
Consider my definitions of a couple things here in case you'd like to take issue with the support before the structure:
a "pattern of behaviour" is no simple autonomic action or reaction such as breathing, feeding, and sleeping.
"Inborn" means both independent of experience, and universal across a species.
Stay tuned for a post addressing "Is culture an organism unto itself? And, does it possess instincts?"
hehe Yeah, as if. Time for the Warcraft! hahahah
Jon Might Be An Animal
This is not a post about politics, sex, travel, buying stuff, or food.
It's not really a short post, I guess.
Some of you may know JON, or be aware that I have a friend at work named JON.
Jon posted an MSN conversation between him and I on his blog. Because I like people who read stuff, I've decided to also post the convo, but without the noisy distraction his blogger background provides (take That! Jon! -- Jon's like, "That That! Eyes!" hehe)
As Jon has done, I'm providing Webster's noun definition of 'instinct'.
instinct:
Inborn pattern of behavior often responsive to specific stimuli: "the spawning instinct in salmon"; "altruistic instincts in social animals".
And now, brought to you by time and space, the conversation two gerbils didn't have one day.
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
do you relate success and profit to quality?
Patrickman says:
its more like
you relate success and profit to a lack of quality
Patrickman says:
but what is quality?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no i dont lol
Patrickman says:
define quality
Patrickman says:
definitively
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
quality is relative to each person
Patrickman says:
zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
Patrickman says:
have you read it?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
thats a real book?!
Patrickman says:
its a very enlightening read as to how elusive quality is
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
oh, i know how elusive it is
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
thats why people think halo and halo 2 are good
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
and WoW....
Patrickman says:
how elusive the definition of it is
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
quality is on the same platform as beauty
Patrickman says:
is it?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
yah
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
human nature has core beliefs what beauty is, and it differs from person to person
Patrickman says:
rather than say i didn't know that, i will say i still don't know that
Patrickman says:
then it isn't core is it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
there are basic beliefs in beauty
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
instincts persay
Patrickman says:
humans have no instincts
Patrickman says:
only animals do
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol...
Patrickman says:
would you care to dispute that?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
thats a whole nother convo
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
haha
Patrickman says:
yes, but it's not a long convo
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
could be
Patrickman says:
i'm interested to see what you consider to be instinctual in humans
Patrickman says:
and i will show you that everything humans do is learned
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
every human is born w/ ideas and the capability to do certain things
Patrickman says:
no
Patrickman says:
they are not
Patrickman says:
no human is born with ideas
Patrickman says:
and there are no tasks that humans know innately
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
breathing is instinct
Patrickman says:
humans are the only mammal that cannot swim from birth
Patrickman says:
no it is not
Patrickman says:
breathing is not a task
Patrickman says:
eating isn't
Patrickman says:
sleeping isn't
Patrickman says:
these are all autonomic processes
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
so only task's can be considered instinct?
Patrickman says:
and are not considered instinct in any species
Patrickman says:
yes
Patrickman says:
such as the instinct in birds to fly south in the winter without actually knowing where south is
Patrickman says:
or how seals(?) use rocks to open clams etc
Patrickman says:
or is it otters..
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no idea
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about the instinct to look for protection from enviroments?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
babies run to their mother's when they are scared
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
well, not run
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
you know
Patrickman says:
babies are taught that mommy offers comfort
Patrickman says:
but if it was instinct, how come you don't still run to mommy?
Patrickman says:
instincts are never unlearned
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
i still run to my mom
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
and yours
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
*burn!*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about fear?
Patrickman says:
autonomic
Patrickman says:
fight or flight
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
most people are scared of spider's with out ever seeing one
Patrickman says:
the release of hormones into the blood stream will elevate certain states
Patrickman says:
no they are not
Patrickman says:
and saying they were...
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
sex is an instinct
Patrickman says:
if fear was an instinct in humans, humans would react identically to the same situations
Patrickman says:
biological urges etc, are not task-related behaviours
Patrickman says:
instinct, is knowledge applied without experience
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
and bird flying south are biological urges?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
are not*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
wait
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
are*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
are not*
Patrickman says:
they are not biological in nature
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
wtf
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
everything is biological
Patrickman says:
well, sure
but flying south does not have the immediacy of biological imperitives
Patrickman says:
and behaviour is not a biological phenomenon
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
sex is a behaviour too tho
Patrickman says:
at any rate, humans have no insticts. there is nothing we know how to do the first time we do it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
its not purly physical like it was
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
ok
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
i got it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
ill give you the fact that humans have no instinct
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
but i do have 1 we do have
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
humans have the instinct to learn
Patrickman says:
no we do not my friend
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
omg
Patrickman says:
humans have the biological basis in order to store and reaccess memory
however, it is only with human culture that the process of real learning takes place
Patrickman says:
rats can "learn" a maze...
Patrickman says:
but rats cannot choose to learn
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
culture? thats a shitty excuse
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about cavemen?
Patrickman says:
our learning is different because it starts off primitively, but gives way to consciousness through enculturation
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
there was no real culture when humans first came to be
Patrickman says:
excuse?
Patrickman says:
the first humans only came to be as a result of culture
Patrickman says:
the culture of community
Patrickman says:
the culture of recorded history
Patrickman says:
the culture of best practice
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
fine, then culture is an instinct.
Patrickman says:
everything human relates to culture
Patrickman says:
omg
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
BOOM!
Patrickman says:
it is not
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
AARRRGGG
Patrickman says:
have you ever heard of the wild boy of aveyron?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
no
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
wait, maybe
Patrickman says:
humans have a very brief window in which to become enculturated
Patrickman says:
after a certain point, it becomes impossible
Patrickman says:
thus, not an instinct
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
but even birds have to learn to fly
Patrickman says:
do they?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
theyre taught, from their mother
Patrickman says:
why do you think that is?
Patrickman says:
i think you are incorrect
Patrickman says:
mom has an instinct for when to push the birds out the nest
Patrickman says:
however, birds fly with no demonstration of flight previously supplied
Patrickman says:
atfer a certain point, the instinct to fly matches with the physical capability to do so
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about when the mother demonstrates when she takes off from the nest
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
or flys back
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
the youth take notice
Patrickman says:
haha
Patrickman says:
you make them sound so human
Patrickman says:
instead of just hungry needy mouths eagerly awaiting more food
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
PS - Patrickman says:
yes, but it's not a long convo
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
could be
Patrickman says:
relativity again?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
im just trying to relate that humans, have certain built in notions
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
Chuck has an instinct of round house kicking
Patrickman says:
omg
Patrickman says:
no they don't
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
walking!
Patrickman says:
humans have nothing more than biological dispositions to their environment
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
yah, but the dispositions had to evolve from a notion
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
which would be an instinct
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
what about the first human to walk?
Patrickman says:
how so?
Patrickman says:
dispositions had to evolve from a notion
Patrickman says:
given that the disposition is biological, and notions are the result of cognizance...
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
cognizance?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
uh, dunno wtf that means
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
dictionary.com to the rescue!
Patrickman says:
cognition
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
you think notions are awareness?
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
well, ok they are
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
nvm that
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
competition could be considered instinct...
Patrickman says:
well,
roll this all around for a while, and we will reapproach it on another occasion
agreed?
Patrickman says:
it could not
Patrickman says:
peer accolades are only important to some
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
most*
Patrickman says:
competition at the basest of levels is merely survival of the fittest
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
everyone wants to be the best
Patrickman says:
and survival is not a tast - it is a result
Patrickman says:
task*
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
i know that
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
FINE
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lets drop it
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
haha
Patrickman says:
we are not dropping it
Patrickman says:
we are adjourning
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
hmmmm
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
adjourning...
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
INSTINCT!
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
you know, i could do this for every verb in the dictionary
Patrickman says:
it is the result of thought processes learned from my species that i now direct my full attention to my work
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
work is an instinct....
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
ahaha
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
jk
Patrickman says:
i luv u
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
lol
.::Jon::. Canada 16 - Italy 0 Go GIRLS Go says:
im blogging this convo
Patrickman says:
thats a great idea
So what do you think? Do humans have what can be considered "Inborn pattern of behavior often responsive to specific stimuli"?
Consider my definitions of a couple things here in case you'd like to take issue with the support before the structure:
a "pattern of behaviour" is no simple autonomic action or reaction such as breathing, feeding, and sleeping.
"Inborn" means both independent of experience, and universal across a species.
Stay tuned for a post addressing "Is culture an organism unto itself? And, does it possess instincts?"
hehe Yeah, as if. Time for the Warcraft! hahahah
9 Comments:
Structural Functionalists believe that this is the case. Society itself and therefore culture, is a living organism.
Culture in a society is "who we are" and based on knowledge, language, values, customs and the material objects we create that are passed from person to person, generation to generation. So you could argue that it might be "instinctual", but not on a biolgical level, as culture is a learned phenomenon.
thank you for that, anawnimis
I would have to agree with you Patrick that there is no (Or very rare) levels of instinct within Humans. It's not like one day we decide that we can all of a sudden fly or whatever. Everything from my experience in life has been learned.
I'm not familiar with the wild boys, but I am familiar with a few cases of children being raised by dogs for many years. After a certain point or window, they lose the ability to learn new things. Like talking for instance. They may be able to be vocal, but nothing to the likes of words or sentences. Also walking up-right after walking on all 4's per se would not be done with such grace as to one whom has been walking since a baby.
RJ, you saw that thing on TV the other night didn't you? The ferel children show. It was fascinating, in terms of how important social interaction is in the stages of development in children. Piaget was a major psychologist in that area, I have studied a lot of his work, so I found that fascinating.
It was a while back when I saw that, but yes it was the same show. Interesting what happens in vacant corners of the world and what many unintentional experiments teach us.
Yes, unintentional things can shed a great deal of insight into things we didn't previously know. Human psychology is a fascinating area of science. So much that we really don't understand, but so much that we do.
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